Curse

Vanquisher · Mar 06, 2008, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Gale shouldn't be 5 energy. It's a ridiculous point to argue and just shows that you want to use it on your Warriors, rather than wanting what's best for the general balance of the game. It should be a 3 second knockdown, though.

As for Assassins, combo's that instantly kill should definately not be the case. Likewise, shadowsteps that prevent kiting after they've happened shouldn't be the case. Dark Prison and Shadow Prison are terrible in terms of functionality because not only do they remove the entire ability to prekite, but they also removed the ability to kite after you've teleported in.

What needs to happen is that the combo that kills pretty much instantly need to be changed to just not happen. Whether it's increasing energy cost, or changing the way combinations work, they need to be changed. AoD Sins were the best form in the game after GPS got knocked up to 10e and Distortion got smashed. That's the kind of level they should be at.

I'm not sure whether or not shadow steps need an aftercast. If combinations are toned down I wouldn't be so sure they did. The biggest argument for such a change is secondary Assassins, but I'd be much happier to see Shadowsteps disabled for non-primaries.

Kaon · Mar 06, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

There is no discussion about gale. Just fools being too inexperienced, narrowminded, or stupid to use arguments, and see the ones brought up to buff it.

The keypoints were made about 5 pages ago, everything after that has mostly been filled with contentless crap or irrelevant side discussions. The moderation on this thread has been totally absent and awfull.

Anyways balance update tonight so we'll see what's going to happen. Izzy will probably have had not enough time to put this post to the test so perhaps next week we'll see something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Gale shouldn't be 5 energy. It's a ridiculous point to argue and just shows that you want to use it on your Warriors, rather than wanting what's best for the general balance of the game. It should be a 3 second knockdown, though.

Sad that even you resort to an unbacked up opinion. I argued against this pages ago so therefore will not respond further now. Unless you want to make a seperate topic.

Uetzcayotl · Mar 06, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by deathy

My point was that if 3 attack skills were viable instead of 5, due to the way that they interchange with eachother, and provide different utility depending on how you use them, then we would see more interesting bars as the other two slots could allow for a more well rounded assassin.
The point I was making with the shutdown, was that if a warrior gets his eviscerate interrupted then he can still do executioners, an assassin cant use an offhand after his lead is interrupted, which stops his combo dead.
Assassins are very much "shadowstep->click 1-5", which doesn't reward skill at all, they are very one dimensional. That is what I'm trying to get at with my suggestions.

Yeah, that would be great (would make me want to use mine again), I'm not sure how much time anet would devote to coding it -

As for my suggestoin, I intended that if only l-o-d existed, the rest of the assassin skill bar can possibly be utility. Leads and off-hands would need to be adjusted, of course, but the entire chain should do *slightly* more damage than the standard evisc-exec at the expense of the chain being 1.easily shut down 2.little pressure outside of the spike. Maybe. Although, at this stage in the assassin, he probably wouldn't be worth bringing.

Golden Phoenix Strike - Off-Hand Attack. Must follow a lead attack. If this attack hits, target foe takes +5...17...20 damage. If you are enchanted, target foe is set on fire for 1...3...4 seconds.

Black Spider Strike - Lead Attack. If this attack hits, target foe takes +5...17...20 damage. If target foe is hexed, that foe is poisoned for 5...17...20 seconds.

It shouldn't be too hard to change them, besides the Falling attacks which can probably stay, just reduce the +damage on them.

Vanquisher · Mar 06, 2008, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Sad that even you resort to an unbacked up opinion. I argued against this pages ago so therefore will not respond further now. Unless you want to make a seperate topic.

I can back up my opinion. I just don't feel there's any need to because it won't change anyones mind as everyone's got their feelings about it set. What I want to see from Gale is an increase in power, but not making it too abusable on frontline characters. More use from Casters, in my opinion, would be really good for the game. It would allow all sorts of dynamic splitting options. Warriors in particular having an over-efficient Gale (which it would be at 5 energy) would, I think, result in failings in terms of splitting less costly, and errors such as not leaving quick enough, or not dodging Pin Down, or whatever, would go unpunished for the most part.
I can understand your reasoning though - you want a more split friendly game. That's fair enough, but were that to happen Gale would need to go to 5e and 3s KD, which would make it far too powerful.

Kaon · Mar 07, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

I can back up my opinion. I just don't feel there's any need to because it won't change anyones mind as everyone's got their feelings about it set. What I want to see from Gale is an increase in power, but not making it too abusable on frontline characters. More use from Casters, in my opinion, would be really good for the game. It would allow all sorts of dynamic splitting options. Warriors in particular having an over-efficient Gale (which it would be at 5 energy) would, I think, result in failings in terms of splitting less costly, and errors such as not leaving quick enough, or not dodging Pin Down, or whatever, would go unpunished for the most part.
I can understand your reasoning though - you want a more split friendly game. That's fair enough, but were that to happen Gale would need to go to 5e and 3s KD, which would make it far too powerful.

Every caster except monks is already using gale and has been for the past year.

Vanquisher · Mar 07, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Every caster except monks is already using gale and has been for the past year.

The argument is for an increase in Gale's power. Were it to go to 5 energy, it would need to go to 3 seconds also, otherwise it would be far out of hand on Warriors. If it were 5 energy and 3 seconds, it would be far too brutal. Subsequently any increase in power other than a change to 3 seconds, which wouldn't benefit Warriors, would be too big a buff.

dies like fish · Mar 07, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Every caster except monks is already using gale and has been for the past year.

Monks can run gale, too.

Captain Robo · Mar 07, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

10 Energy, 3 second KD gale would be balanced.

10 Energy, 2 second KD gale is underpowered.
5 Energy, any length KD gale is overpowered.

DutchSmurf · Mar 07, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

110 Energy, 2 second KD gale is underpowered.

I wouldn't call the current Gale underpowered at all tho.

Almighty Zi · Mar 08, 2008, 12:04 AM // 00:04

OK. So lets all agree on 7.5 energy, 2.5 second KD!

Can we move the conversation on now please.

Vl Vl D · Mar 08, 2008, 01:33 AM // 01:33

I would like lighting hammer to be buffed so it causes one of the following cracked armour, KD, weakness or deep wound.

horseradish · Mar 31, 2008, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I think what the OP was getting at is that today's meta is ftl, and by nerfing and overhauling some skills and classes, we get to start off fresh, which gives everyone a second chance to make a better gaming environment. Hope no one suffers a mental breakdown if this is implemented.

I think variety is a big component too. Cripshot and ShockAxe are excellent characters to bring, but you see how many of them there are and how little of anything else there is.

After re-reading the reasons why he supports these changes, I can only imagine it being a step in the right direction.

JR · Mar 31, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Every caster except monks is already using gale and has been for the past year.

Pretty sure I galed Flamings Infuse twice vs PnH causing us to score kills and wipe them whilst on a stand Monk.

(Though to be fair they later won that game when they Gale locked me in their base and rolled through the rest of the team. The irony.)

Gale is not only perfectly balanced, it's also a highly underrated skill because only good players get the full mileage out of it. It does absolutely reward skill (except on GoE Dom Mesmers). It certainly does not need a buff.

Killed u man · Mar 31, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Profession: A/D

The irony is killing me.

QFT...

A/D spike pretty muched replaced Bloodspike (Tough Dual Strikes is still around)
Nothing better than people defending shitbuilds... I feels like yesterday when someone called the SoJ-build "good" for the game and "skill-rewarding"...

To fix PvP for the next few years:

-> RA: Try and add a 5th player "Hero" Monk to every team. Face it, monk = guaranteed win over people without one. YES, it's called Random Arena's and NO, I'm not QQ'ing, I RA once a week. I do however realize that the dishonorable hex DID NOT fix anything. It merely makes people leave AFTER the match. Gues what, people weren't leaving because they thought they had no chance without a monk, they left because you DO IN FACT HAVE (WAY) LESSER CHANCE OF WINNING WITHOUT A MONK.
Adding a Hero monk (Who can either move around "freely" and has a standard half prot/heal bear. (WoH +...)
This way, monks get rewarded because 2 Monks is better than 1 (Duur), yet a team with 4 non-healers still has a chance because the Hero monk can atleast keep them alive long enough to apply pressure. Sure, the team with the monk would still have advantage, but the gap between monk-no monk will be lowered signifcantly.

-> TA: Did Anet EVER do anything about this? Imo, re-add the HB cap-points map to this. This way builds such as Mo/A-spike would never have existed...

-> GvG: Pretty much every post here involves GvG, no need to enlighten the main points of interest.

-> HA: Remove Cap Points (Face it, it will never be fair, 3-way), give teams a chance in HoH to "outrun" the 2 enemy teams. I can't be asked HOW this would happen, but then again, ANET made the game, not me. The way this should be, is by being able to gain "reward" shrines or something (Just brainstorming) which would give a "protection" against hexes (Infinite hex breaker if You wish), one which would give ALL your snares 90% slower for xx seconds. (Just giving idea's, because the way it is atm is just retarded. It's 90% luck and 10% last minute match-skill)

-> HB: Check HB Section

Final Note: I know how the current attitude (Pretty much always been this way) is GvG > ALL. There is 2 reasons why this is atm:
-> The game is named GUILD Wars, obv. GvG is going to be the highest form of PvP, I completely agree with this one. However, this doesn't mean HA must be left forgotten, because it still has (Ye, PvE'ers, Lamers, but they are still players) the larger community...
-> Skill balanced have always been GvG based (99%). Offc. HA is dominated by gimmicks now due to lack of updates. So saying that HA "sucks" because it gets dominated by gimmicks is downright pointing a finger at yourself... The only reason WHY it gets dominated by such retarded gimmicks is simply because skill updates ignored the main problems in HA for years now. (Expertise Abuse, RaO, Scythe's Dmg + the "balled-up"-nature of HA...

Anyways, I hope Anet does keep updating the game, but the past tells me something different will happen...

yum · Mar 31, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

QFT...

-> RA: Try and add a 5th player "Hero" Monk to every team. Face it, monk = guaranteed win over people without one. YES, it's called Random Arena's and NO, I'm not QQ'ing, I RA once a week. I do however realize that the dishonorable hex DID NOT fix anything. It merely makes people leave AFTER the match. Gues what, people weren't leaving because they thought they had no chance without a monk, they left because you DO IN FACT HAVE (WAY) LESSER CHANCE OF WINNING WITHOUT A MONK.
Adding a Hero monk (Who can either move around "freely" and has a standard half prot/heal bear. (WoH +...)
This way, monks get rewarded because 2 Monks is better than 1 (Duur), yet a team with 4 non-healers still has a chance because the Hero monk can atleast keep them alive long enough to apply pressure. Sure, the team with the monk would still have advantage, but the gap between monk-no monk will be lowered signifcantly.

In other words; seperate TA and RA completely. Suggested b4.

Quote:

-> TA: Did Anet EVER do anything about this? Imo, re-add the HB cap-points map to this. This way builds such as Mo/A-spike would never have existed...

Go play AB. The HB maps were the most retarded idea ever.

Kyp Jade · Mar 31, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Its not very often that I agree with you borat.

In terms of skill balances, a LOT of problems in HA can be addressed by killing Aura of stability and hex breaker, then reworking weapon of warding so its not a hamster cage for the ghostly hero to stand on the altar with.

the_deSKtructor · Mar 31, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

-> TA: Did Anet EVER do anything about this? Imo, re-add the HB cap-points map to this. This way builds such as Mo/A-spike would never have existed...

Ffs no. 32 skills are already a bit too tight in TA already, adding different game modes will only worsen stuff.

Killed u man · Mar 31, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_deSKtructor

Ffs no. 32 skills are already a bit too tight in TA already, adding different game modes will only worsen stuff.

I'm just brainstorming, imo, TA isn't even all that bad compared to other formats of PvP...
It's only inactivity that's killing it... No Anet, no X2 Arena's weekend. How about a "HoH" chest every 10 wins? (Once again, I'm only throwing out idea's here that pop-up in my mind, don't go frenzy on me)

DreamWind · Mar 31, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

How about a TA ladder. Omgzors!

Kaon · Mar 31, 2008, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

How about a TA ladder. Omgzors!

Ta ladder has been asked for, cried for, begged for, prostituted (rofl it won't let me spell out the proper word) for, paid for, reasoned for, bribed for, killed for, sacrificed for, argued for, conquered for, petitioned for, prayed for, and whoknowswhat for, but never got implemented.

It would've been one of the best and coolest features in guild wars that would've pleased a HUGE croud and brought thousands of extra people into competitive play.

However, it isn't going to happen, because challenge mission ladder is more important. I'll garantuee you 100% it won't get implemented, i'll eat my laptop if it will.